"Career S*icide" or Competitive Advantage? LinkedIn, Agency, and Litigation with Aneka Jiwaji

Welcome to Studying Law Around the World. I'm Claudio Claus. In each episode, I talk with lawyers, law students, and professors from different parts of the world to talk about legal education, careers, and what the profession looks like in real life. We talk about the hard parts, the surprises, and the decisions that shaped their paths, whether you're planning to study abroad, thinking about working in another legal system, or just curious about how law works around the world. This podcast is for you. Today I have the opportunity to be interviewing Annika Jiwaji. She is a litigator. She has an LLM in securities law and has an incredible experience. She leads her own firm and I'm so excited to host her today. Thank you so much for being here today, Annika. Thanks for having me. Absolutely, and she's started podcast today. I'd love for you to introduce herself to our guests and maybe share a little bit about your journey into law and what inspired you to become a litigator. Sure. Yeah. So, so I'm the ANICA and I'm already at commercial litigator and all the securities litigator here Vancouver and I've been quite the journey to get to where I am at today. So I kind of grew up in a law family. My dad was a lawyer, my dad number of siblings who were lawyers. So I went around just industry from a very young age. I was actually born the day before my dad's constitutional law exam, Dahlsen University, the whole thing. We relocated to Halifax from London to attend law. So I was born into this other young age until running around my dad's practice, my always informed jobs to do so he would have to make up jumps for me, like filing again, I would say I want to scan things and just little things like that. So yeah, I was always kind of around my dad's practice. I always from a young age said I wanted to be a lawyer and I I've always known that I was a litigator who never even did like the solicitors move things and went straight into a full litigation role. And I've only ever done litigation and other state and litigation all of the 10 years and we love it. So yeah, in terms of like the journey, like I started at a specialty lines, that national specialty lines insurance firm doing that mostly professional negligence claims. And then I transitioned to a full service regional firm with that more of like a full service practice, still doing some of the insurance work I was doing before, but then some more commercial litigation. And then I went full commercial litigation at an international firm. And after that I went to the BC Securities Commission. I was a litigation council there in an enforcement branch for 3 1/2 years. Most recently I was at a top tier commercial litigation boutique in town. And as of January 12th of this year, so very recently, I'm now at my own boutique shop with that myself and my sister who is a corporate lawyer within the society and Max and I DNA. So we are doing something a little different here, kind of bringing my skill set in hers together. And now we're just kind of started on that journey, man. So it's kind of the long story of how long it. Is incredible. I'm glad we're talking now that you know you have this awesome and exciting professional day to your continue on learning a little more about your journey and all of that. I also wanted to ask you about, you know, outside the courtroom as your litigator. Are there a few, you know, passions or projects that energize you and influence your perspective as a lawyer? Oh my gosh, I have it was, it's actually a little joke. I just had lunch with a with a friend over and she said to me, she's a litigator in town. Who's your 10 years by the year? And she was, she was just sort of chuckling at me because I'm kind of one of those people who always has a project or a passion outside of law sort of on the go. I've always sort of considered myself to be a bit like multifaceted or little bit out-of-the-box. So you know, what you usually see in kind of the complex litigation space, other things going on in my life. I think it's really important. So one of the big things that I'm working on right now is the jewelry company with my sisters. So with my sister, the law firm, with another younger sister, I'm the middle sister, there's three of us who lives in Toronto and she works in advertising. So we have a jewelry company called Jaya. We're at House of Jaya on Instagram and we do a lot of like fine jewelry. We're doing a bit of like a bigger lodge for some collections we have in the works coming up in the spring. But to date we've done a lot of custom engagement rings and cocktail rings and it made a lot of rings for a lot of other lawyers in town. I'm friends from law school. I've done their engagement rings so that objects on the go. And then of course, I LinkedIn and that's sort of an ongoing project, which climate amount of nowhere. I started doing LinkedIn in 2020 and it really just took off. So I do a lot of writing around mental health and gender equity issues and systemic issues in the law on LinkedIn. And so that's an ongoing sort of passion project. And those are the things, in addition to building out Jiwaji Law, that I have on the goal, right. Oh, that's so exciting and, and lots going on. If I may ask them more about what has motivated you to start your own firm and even if that comes from you wanting to reflect your values and your approach to law in a more personal way? Yeah, you know, the Old Firm thing is something that I really sort of came around to. So from probably the time that I was like a 5 or 6 year call, I know a 10 year call, people would say to me like, Anna, you should start your own firm. And I was like, I don't know if I want to do that because I sort of have this idea in my mind. I have to like make it within the existing infrastructure. So I kept trying to like fit myself into the boxes of what I thought I should be doing. So you know, for example, I would say, OK, well I'll go start my own firm if and when I make partner at another firm, like just things like that. Like I had all these little benchmarks. I think that I was going to do the client pushed to four. I started my own farm. I always wanted my own firm. I always kind of knew that was on game for me. But I think that in some ways I sort of got into this proving myself mentality. I wanted everybody to know like I could get in within their system. I don't know if that was a good thing or a bad thing. I think on the good thing side, you know, I built a lot of really good credibility in this market, which I don't think I would have if I had gone out earlier by myself. I am. But really for me, it sort of came to a head like, oh, really just did not see a future at the current firm. Then where was I don't think that they saw future for me either. I think that's probably a mutual statement. And, you know, I really just got to a point where I had a great book of business was doing really well when it came to the actual, you know, substantive skills of litigating. I really felt confident in, you know, what I was able to do and bring to the table. And there was really no value of being at other firms anymore. I didn't feel like I needed another platform for, you know, probability or for experience. I have so many amazing matters outside of my firm and even my former firm that, you know, I would always all about how, you know, snowball with file or a problem or something like I, I felt I had the network that I needed that if I was like stuck on a file or I needed some guidance, I didn't need to be within the existing structure anymore to make that work for me. So I was kind of at a point when I was looking to what was my next opportunity. I did actually interview and had some really good opportunities kind of come by way, but they were all again within other peoples farms or, you know, big law and that kind of thing. And it just kind of brought to a point where I said, you know, I need, I don't actually need these things anymore, Probably things that it takes to do this myself. And that's really what what what spurred me to to go and join up with them sister and and do this. And we just both really felt like, you know, that we didn't see something in the market the way that we kind of practice law, like where we have all the, you know, the skills and the experience. But I think that we felt that the firms that we we had been at in the past, like we just were not able to flourish and the way that we could at our own firm. And my sister, who went out six months ago by herself in June, was just having such a good time practicing outside of all of these other institutions. And she's going on such great clients and great experience. And she just kept saying to me like, this is like the way forward. I'm only wanted to build a term that for me, it's not about being women LED for the sake of being women LED. It's more about like all lined women's rugby hitting women is actually really good dismals. And I see a lot of firms that sort of say, Oh, well, we'll know what that's like. An like for me, that's not really necessarily the story. It's like building a place where we hire women and silent people because they are the best person for the job. That's the decision. What's the business decision? Do it because it's warm and fuzzy. We do it because it's a good business decision. We are firing the best rounded out the most excellent Adderall and back in a lot of times tends to be a woman. Still, that's part of what this firm is invoked and really to be able to say. Well, that that's a very exciting phase for sure. And I'm so happy to hear a little bit about like why this decision came about and how you got through it. And you mentioned a little bit about your practice. I'd love to hear a little more, you know, about your your commercial cases, securities insurance. I know it's very hard to say like my day-to-day looks like this because it can be so varied. But I'm wondering if there's a few things that you find most, you know, rewarding about this kind of work or if there's a few things that are very challenging and, and maybe that's what excites you as well. Yeah, so my practice, I really consider myself to be like a true barrister, like I am always taking the mentality. I've done so many different things in litigation. I'm always taking the mentality, you know, you should never get comfortable if a file is new to you or an area practice is new to you, you can always learn it as long as you have like the litigation toolbox, like the litigation is all really the same at all lot of ways, right. It's like if you have the procedural tools and ability to do strategy, you should be able to pick up most files and do them. Now, that being said, I don't I'm pretty I'm pretty squarely in the like Brevan commercial litigation space in the sense of what? I don't do any estates litigation. I don't do any criminal law or family law or employment law. So I basically my commercial litigation practice encompasses everything else. So like shareholders disputes, commercial tantrum disputes with advised companies and for profits and solve these governance issues, all of that sort of thing. And then I have sort of an interesting sort of subset of my practice, which I'm really comes out from my, my time at a Securities Commission. So I do have a securities like regulatory practice where, you know, I'm defending people against investigations and persecutions from entities like the BC Securities Commission or if they've got professional disciplinary hearings that things like 0 that, you know, the Canadian rose, forget what the acronym stands for these days, but Canadian Investment Regulatory Organization, it is that kind of thing. And then that sort of snowballed because I had that, you know, skill sink within the administrative law sort of regulatory world into doing other regulatory areas. So you know, like for example, I've I've taken on a file right now that is a is a model before the Medical Services Commission. So that's kind of very squarely in like the administrative law sort of space. So yeah, I would I would sort of describe my practices like commercial litigation, regulatory Securities Litigation, straight of law. One of the things that I'm doing now that is new to me in a sensible John smoking litigation before I did do some litigation when I was at Dentons. But my sister is an intellectual property and trademark lawyer and she's also a tax lawyer. So she really has like really great substantive knowledge in those areas, but she's not a litigator. So one of the reasons that we sort of decided to bring this together is we felt that there was a niche in the market for these two specific areas because a lot of firms that they'll do IP and they'll do tax, but they don't have anybody who does the disputes work. And I have like, you know, the litigation and the chance to do that stuff, but I don't have a substantive mode and my sister knows that stuff in some. So we are not actually eating picking up some more. We got two really nice pieces of litigation and the goal right now, which is great. And we were starting to get more referrals and disputes space. So I really just see that just sort of staying in a lot of ways what it is. But also both of those things I see and attacks like they're, they're basically before administrative tribunals, Oriental score. So I'm sort of well positioned to do that work and excited to work with someone who just like was so much worse for me. So much respect for we collaborate really well on these and I think that we'll be able to serve things in a way that other groups just on those areas. So yeah, that's how it where where my practice is at right now. Oh, I see it developing. That's so exciting. No, it's, it sounds really incredible. The the skins, the skill set that each of you bring something that I'm always curious. So I'm not sure if you've seen this, but basically what I do in my podcast, a lot of my listeners at this moment are early career professionals, people who are starting up their careers, law students. So I always make a point to ask my guests a little bit about things that they've singing throughout their careers or things that really helped them in their career as well. If I were to ask you, you know, looking back, what are some of the most important lessons that you've learned as a litigator that maybe you think that, you know, young lawyers should know early in their careers? Are there a few points that that you would maybe tell your younger self these days? I don't know if my, my, my sort of take on that is necessarily litigation focused, but what I will say is like, First off, don't try to plan things too much. Like when I look at my career, like I couldn't have planned any of this, right? Like none of this was really planned. I just, I was always sort of nimble. I was always able to pivot. I was always, I always trusted my own judgment and my own intentions on things. And I think like, you know, a lot of times in law, we get really caught up in what like other people are telling us what to do. Like, so for example, like, you know, people told me not to do LinkedIn. They said like that was going to be a career suicide mission. People told me I would never be able to, you know, transition and doing insurance litigation. People told me a lot of things. And, you know, for me, I just didn't listen to any of them. I'm not saying they should never take advice from anybody, but like, I think you have to like really dig deep and see like what you want out of your career. And people are giving advice about from like their lived experience. And some of that is like great advice. But on the whole, like you really have to like be really self aware. And that's what's really served me. Like I'm very, I think very self aware person. Like I know what I'm doing, what I'm going to very well, where are my strengths and weaknesses. And that's really served me well in terms of being able to like make decisions on my own accord without having to like, you know, run my choices by everybody and second guess myself and doubt myself and all of that. So, you know, I think the industry is changing a lot. Like I remember when I was a, a law student, like I would have never imagined doing some of the things that I'm doing right now. Like if you had told me that I would be writing, you know, content 8000 people on LinkedIn, I would have said that, you know, you're crazy. So it's like kind of, I don't know. And there's a long winded way of saying like, trust your own judgment and like you're, you're, you're well equipped to make decisions for yourself. You don't need to listen to everybody's advice on everything. That was the first thing I would say. And the second thing I would say is, you know, for me anyways, like the connections that I have made in the law have like saved me on so many occasions. And when I say that, I mean like it's so easy to get caught up in like your own firm and who you work with that your own firm and like, you know, what that looks like in your relationships with them. I'm like, that's a great thing. But having a network outside of the firm that she worked at is so important. Like I've been really intentional about really meeting like minded people on the like, not from a business development listed, but in my support network person deadline, I've identified people that I know share my values, made real organic, like friendships and relationships with these people. And we have each other's backs. And for me that is being usually hugely, hugely helpful. So, you know, it's really easy to get caught up in billing time and billable hours and all of that. And like that's all great, but like the connections, the relationship piece of this business is really it's so valuable. So really like invest time and energy into that. Like I'm still very good friends with a lot of people that I went to law school with and we foster those relationships that were 10 years out. We still do trips together every year. We still go skiing together every year where at each other's kids birthday parties. Like, those are the same people now that are sending me work and, you know, I didn't stay in touch with them because I wanted work from them. It's like they're these are real relationships. And I think that that's made my career just so much more fulfilling. I love to hear that it's been so good to have this common topic, like across most of my interviews, that relationships really are a big thing of life really. So I'm, I'm so glad that, you know, lawyers are always talking about it. And it's, it's been interesting because I don't know if we speak so much more of these these days because for some time maybe this was forgotten or hopefully that was not the case. Hopefully it's just everybody really recognizes the importance of having relationships, having a life out of work in a way. So. It's yeah, I mean, that's good thing. Yeah. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you there, but I just. I'm just thinking out loud here. Like, you know, I like what is success if you can't share it with people? Like, I mean, like I again, I just had lunch with a friend of mine and you know, we just should another like, you know, really good lawyer in town and we're just kind of laughing about something and, you know, chuckling. And like, just like you have to see the lighter part of this business, right? If you just like get into like the slogging and the grinding and you don't make any relationships, you don't make any friendships. Like that is no way to live. Like that's just my, my take on it, you know, so I just never been one of those people who like goes to work, does my work with my head down and goes home. Like I'm making like real relationships when I'm there, whether that's, you know, at the firm that I'm at. Like I've got friends at every firm that I've worked at. Like I was just set of friends wedding who I worked out with at Dentons, which is like, you know, 2 firms ago. But like, we're still very good friends. I still see people from the first firm that I worked at where I suffered an article and I was on there for a couple of years. I've called like, I still in most of those relationships because that's what makes this. So that's like the beautiful human element of, of this job, right? So, yeah, I, I just really think it is, it's so valuable. And it's just really easy to sing. Oh, you know, I'm really tired. I don't want to slot in that lunch with so And so that's, you know, another hour away from the office and. Do another hour of billable time and like get home sooner. But like, there's no fun in, in my opinion anyway. We are amazing. Loved hearing that. If I were to ask you maybe to wrap up today's episode, however, you however you felt that LinkedIn has played a role in all of that. Personally, I felt that it it really has helped me to keep in touch with people when I want to share work update. But maybe it's not something that I want to do in a one to one setting or some topic that I'm interested in passionate about. And then I usually hear good feedback about it. So I'm, I'm very, very curious to hear how does that come? Around to you. LinkedIn is amazing. It's like, like, honestly, like people would make fun of me for doing LinkedIn. Like I, and it's funny because before my LinkedIn president said really took off of when I was really small, people would be like, you know, technically she's like a LinkedIn influencer. People really judgy about it. And it's funny because those same people now who are like, wow, you're such an amazing referral network. And I'm like, that's all they did, right? Like I never ever gotten a file from LinkedIn. Like nobody's ever like cold LinkedIn. Message me. Hey, I need your legal services. You don't need. But like I've made so many amazing connections with other lawyers to my dad. Like that has been amazing for my career and my desk. It's just, it's, it's amazing. The other thing that Lynchin has given me is agency. Like I have control over my own connections, my own marketing. Like I'm able to put out, you know, interesting cases that I've read, interesting cases that I've worked on, Like it's my own firm wouldn't market me and the way that I want it to be marketed, I would do it right. So it gave me agency and control over my career. Like I could share my win. I could share my opinions. I, I get to have my own narrative of my own career. And that was something that is so rare, especially for women and especially for racialized women, especially for young lawyers. It is really, really rare to have this much agency over your old. I get to share my own story from my own land owners. I see things nobody gets to tell me. And that agency is really invaluable. Like I get to I get to shape my own career. And I've done a lot of that through my LinkedIn presence, which I think is pretty cool. So, you know, I'm really happy I didn't listen to the people who told me to shut my LinkedIn down. And I really think that a lot of people who send bots were genuinely looking for me. But some of them just didn't like that I was doing something different. And it was sort of threatening to their odea of what the status quo should look like. And they wanted a world in which, you know, we all wait in the wings for them to allow us to like have a leadership position or feel really have an opinion or build our own practice. And I just said no to all of that. And I just did it myself. So I think mentions Linton is the single best thing I've ever done genuinely. That's that's I say that wholeheartedly outside of like, you know, doing a good job. It's like you get if you get good work, then you don't know how to do it, you're kind of screwed. So I always focused on like being as good of a lawyer as I could possibly be, putting in the hours, doing all of that. But in terms of like building connections and doing that in, in a way that like made sense for me. And it's sort of interesting talking about it because none of it was really planned. Like I never had like a plan with LinkedIn. It just turned into something more than I could have ever anticipated. But yeah, it's definitely being one of the single bus things I've done for my career. I love hearing that. Thank you so much for sharing. It really, really appreciated. And thank you for taking the time to join in the podcast today. I really appreciate learning more about your career and your insights. Thank you so much for having me with me and so much fun chatting with you. And I'm, I'm, I'm excited that, you know, so many more young people are doing fun things like this. And I think it's great. And I say keep on doing it. Really appreciate it and thank you all for tuning in and listening to today's episode.